Dr. Jaishankar’s Interview with HT after US Election

Full Event: Jaishankar’s Big Message To Trump, Says This On Ukraine War

Summary of Talk

• Introduction and Geopolitical Context: Bronwen Maddox welcomes Dr. S. Jaishankar, India’s External Affairs Minister, at Chatham House to discuss India’s global rise. The conversation begins with geopolitics, focusing on the first 41 days of the Trump administration’s foreign policy, which Jaishankar finds unsurprising and promising for India due to its move toward multipolarity.

• US-India Relations and Multipolarity: Jaishankar highlights the positive trajectory of India-US relations, citing the Quad as a successful model and shared priorities like affordable energy and technology. He notes Trump’s trade views, leading to ongoing bilateral trade agreement talks, with India’s trade minister in Washington.

• India’s Positioning and Ukraine: India aims to develop major relationships in parallel, customizing its approach to each power in a multipolar world. On Ukraine, Jaishankar explains India’s honest stance on trading with Russia (e.g., oil) to stabilize global energy markets, a position understood by the US since 2022.

• BRICS and Global Role: Jaishankar describes BRICS as a diverse group defying traditional alliances, driven by a shared desire for greater global influence rather than ideology. Its expansion reflects its appeal, covering both economic and political discussions.

• India’s Role in Conflicts: India has engaged both Russia and Ukraine, facilitating communication (e.g., Black Sea grain corridor, Zaporizhzhia messages), but avoids proposing peace plans, advocating direct negotiations while respecting Europe and US stakes.

• UK-India Relations and FTA: Talks with UK leaders (Starmer, Lammy) show progress on a Free Trade Agreement (FTA), though complex and time-consuming. Jaishankar dismisses visa issues as unrelated, seeing an FTA as a catalyst for broader ties, including education and nuclear collaboration.

• India’s Growth Trajectory: Addressing concerns about aging before prosperity, Jaishankar is optimistic, citing India’s $3,000 per capita economy and ability to leapfrog via technology (e.g., digital), predicting decades of 7% growth despite demographic shifts.

• Human Rights and Minorities: Responding to queries about minority treatment, Jaishankar rejects tokenism, arguing India treats citizens equally (e.g., housing, loans), contrasting this with identity-driven politics elsewhere.

• Q&A Highlights: Topics include India-China relations (post-2020 border resolution efforts), defense industry opportunities in Europe, Kashmir (progress via Article 370 removal, elections), and Global South benefits from multipolarity. Jaishankar sees India-China rivalry as offering more options, not dilution.

• Dollar, Human Rights, and Research: He denies a unified BRICS anti-dollar stance, valuing it for stability, and defends India’s human rights record as strong despite political criticism. On research, he predicts a surge in innovation (e.g., space) driven by startups and government initiatives like the National Research Foundation.

Question Asked

Questions from the Host (Bronwen Maddox):

1. “What do you make of the first 41 days of the US’s new foreign policy? Is it good for India? Is it good for the world?”
2. “When you say that they are moving towards multipolarity, do you mean accepting or even encouraging there being many, many poles of power in the world?”
3. “I was wondering where you thought India would come out of this great tariffs?”
4. “The piece in the Financial Times by Martin Wolf this week saying the West is over—you think that’s right?”
5. “I would love to hear more about where India is going to position itself—multipolarity as you said, there is China, we still don’t know exactly what the US might choose to do with China, it’s clearly bringing Russia a bit more in from the cold—where is India going to put itself in this position with the US or US and China?”
6. “What about the BRICS? What would India like the BRICS to be—economic grouping or ideological one? What’s the value of it going to be?”
7. “Do you see a role for India in acting as an intermediary in any of these current conflicts? I’m thinking of the role that Saudi Arabia has taken on in at least bringing the US and Russians together in Riyadh… do you see a role for India in this?”
8. “Where does this [UK-India relationship] stand and let’s start with the Free Trade Agreement?”
9. “Would it be quite wrong for me to ask you in detail everything the Prime Minister has said, but nonetheless, what is the stumbling block at this point on the FTA?”
10. “Will India get old before it gets rich—not the country so much as its people—but the question of whether its growth is really managing to keep up with the aging and size of the population?”
11. “Whether India is still a place where minorities feel that they can thrive—the argument being look it’s great if you’re part of the Hindu majority but unless becoming a less comfortable place if you’re Muslim, Tamil, Sikh, whatever—has that come up in your conversations with Britain and what is your answer to it?” ### Questions from the Audience (Q&A Session):
12. (Siiie, South China Morning Post) “Will Modi come to attend a SCO conference in China this year and as there’s no direct flights between China and India, it’s very difficult to get visas, and also China and India having very few journalists on the ground in each other’s country—how and when will those issues be resolved?”
13. (Sain Ravikumar, Reuters) “In the context of Europe trying to boost its defense capabilities, would India’s defense industry have a role to play in boosting those capabilities and is this something you would be promoting in the coming weeks and months? And secondly… would India be open to lowering tariffs on car imports [from the US]?”
14. (Unnamed woman) “Do you see India’s role in the Middle East, because you spoke about Ukraine but what about the Middle East, in specific Gaza?”
15. (Bach, Chatham House) “Are developments in India’s neighborhood—countries in IMF bailouts, near-failed states, nuclear states with difficult relations, low regional integration—do they hold back or undermine India’s global aspirations, or to put it more bluntly, can India rise without its region?”
16. (David Luin, Chatham House) “Could you comment on India’s aspirations for the internationalization of the rupee, or more generally whether you and the Indian government have a problem with dollar dominance in the international monetary system?”
17. (Nar, author/journalist) “Kashmiris are up in arms because India is occupying Kashmir illegally… given Mr. Trump’s zeal for striking peace deals, can Narendra Modi use his friendship with Donald Trump to solve the problem of Kashmir?”
18. (Online, Nami Canton, Times of India, summarized by host) “Picking up the debate in the UK Parliament today mentioning Kashmir—what are you going to do to solve it?”
19. (Via, Kings College London) “When we talk about Global South aspirations and at the same time we talk about India and China’s rivalry, sometimes because of this rivalry the Global South aspirations are somehow diluted—do you think this rivalry can reduce the impact of the Global South in the larger context and what measures can Indian foreign policy and decision-makers take to make sure that this does not happen?”
20. (Online, Ishan Deala, summarized by host) “Do you see an opportunity for better relations with China in a multipolar world?”
21. (Anise Nas, retired banker) “A lot of talk has been emanating from the BRICS group to replace the dollar and have its own payment system—do you think in view of fast-changing demographics in respect of politics and economics, is this likely to happen in the next 5-10 years?”
22. (Ashish Goyle, global macro investor) “You spoke about the idea of multipolarity being a good thing… so why not multipolarity of the dollar, as in currencies across the world, payment systems across the world… would love to hear your thoughts on that?”
23. (Online, Hammad Safas, summarized by host) “India has positioned itself as the world’s largest democracy but concerns about its human rights record have been growing—how does India plan to address this issue, does it acknowledge any shortcomings?”
24. (Bhanu Prav, Kings College London) “In education and especially in the pure sciences… what are your thoughts on us reaching out into the world more accessibly and India becoming a center for global-level research, especially in the pure sciences?”
25. (Online, Ragu Ramachandran, not asked but noted by host) “What is your personal desire or vision for the world in the next 25 years?”

Important Statements

Here are a few important statements quoted directly from the transcript of “Full Event: Jaishankar’s Big Message To Trump, Says This On Ukraine War…| China| India| USA| Russia,” along with their timestamps for context:

1. On US Foreign Policy and Multipolarity:
   • “I think we see a president and an Administration which in our parl[iament] is moving towards multipolarity and that is something which suits India.”
2. On India-US Relations and the Quad:
   • “The one big shared Enterprise that we have is the Quad and the Quad is an understanding where everybody pays their fair share… there are no Free Riders in [the] Quad.”
3. On Trade with Russia and Ukraine:
   • “We’ve always been very honest about it… somebody had to buy Russian oil if the oil markets had to be kept at a decent, you know, reasonable price… there was a very conscious decision not to mix that trade with sanctions.”
4. On India’s Role in Ukraine:
   • “Our view has been that they need to do direct negotiations… we have never advised them what should be the format and what should be the terms of the negotiations, that is their business.”
5. On BRICS Diversity:
   • “BRICS is one [group]… we are a very diverse group… an exception to the normal rules on which groups are formed… it defies all those assumptions.”
6. On India-China Relations:
   • “We want a stable relationship, but we want a relationship where our interests are respected, where our sensitivities are recognized, where it works for both of us.”
7. On Human Rights:
   • “I think we have a very strong human rights record… any sweeping concern on human rights is really misplaced, I don’t see justification for it at all.”
8. On India’s Growth and Technology:
   • “There is a great possibility to Leap Frog in terms of our development… the growth of India will follow a pathway or a trajectory which would not be taken by any significant economy before us.”

Key Terms & Phrases

• Multipolarity: Frequently used to describe a world with multiple power centers, seen as beneficial for India
• Geopolitics: The broad framework for the discussion, introduced at the start.
• Global South: Referenced as a group of nations seeking more options and influence
• Bilateral Trade Agreement: Mentioned in the context of India-US and India-UK negotiations
• Free Trade Agreement (FTA): A key focus in UK-India relations
• Quad: The US-India-Japan-Australia partnership, highlighted as a collaborative model.
• BRICS: The Brazil-Russia-India-China-South Africa grouping, discussed for its diversity and expansion
• Sanctions: Related to Russia and energy trade, with India navigating around them.
• Equilibrium: Used to describe stable balances in India’s relationships, especially with China.
• Energy Prices: A priority in India-US relations and global stability.
• Economic Growth: Central to India’s trajectory
• Nuclear Policy: Mentioned as a changing sector for collaboration.
• Peace and Tranquility: Essential for India-China border relations.
• Two-State Solution: India’s stance on the Israel-Palestinian conflict.
• Humanitarian Law: Advocated in conflict responses.
• Leap Frog: Describes India’s potential to bypass traditional development stages.
• Globalization of India: Tied to rupee internationalization and broader influence.
• Non-Reciprocal: India’s generous approach to neighbors.
• Stable Relationship: A goal with major powers, especially China.
• Self-Interest: The US shifting to a national rather than bloc identity.